meant to sunset. even when he did them they weren't meant to go forever. >> obama: if congress in any way suggests that they are going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling defaults, and take us to the brink of once again, as part of budget negotiations which by the way we have never done it in our history until we did it last year, i am not going to play that game. we have to break that habit before it starts. >> in other words homey don't play that. >> stephanie: exactly. [♪ "world news tonight" theme ♪] >> stephanie: i'm incredibly relieved to see rationality spreading throughout the republican party. he believes they are signalling interest in backing down on tax cuts for the wealthy. that's what representative welch said earlier on the show. he said they are going to cave. it's just a question of when. the president and boner talking about the fiscal cliff. >> they are talking on the phone. >> stephanie: no he drunk dialed him again. at all hours. >> as long as i'm there, it is open. [♪ "world news tonight" theme ♪] >> stephanie: president obama and the boner spoke by phone

center. >> good morning, everybody! president obama is meeting with business leaders again today to talk about the consequences of going over the fiscal cliff. he's also claiming to call on congressional leaders to make sure we raise the debt ceiling without contention. the white house making the case that extending the bush tax cuts for the middle class is directly connected to the health of our businesses. companies need to know consumers will be able to spend and in his first post-election interview president obama again rejected the house republican counteroffer that is on the table. >> unfortunately the speaker's proposal right now is still out of balance. we're going to have to see the rates on the top 2% go up and we're not going to be able to get a deal without it. >> let's hope he sticks to it. >> g.o.p. leaders aren't only dealing with the president and congressional democrats they're dealing with a split within their own ranks. more conservative republicans don't want party leaders to compromise anymore than they think they already have. even though the republican plan of

really over the board when he said congress should keep president obama on a short leash-- >> stephanie: he did not really? >> caller: he did. if he's good we should allow the debt ceiling be raised weekly. if he's bad we should make him wait molly. >> stephanie: you have to google that to mama. really? keep the president on a short leash, wow. let's--whew, that winded me, jim. cindy in michigan. you're on "the stephanie miller show." hi stephanie. >> caller: cindy. >> caller: this point of view only works if you completely forget the crash of '08. the middle class and those at the bottom already took our haircut that was taken by those at the top with no increase for 15 years in the minimum wage. no reform going into that recession in the late 2007-2008 and then private and public pensions and 401ks dropped half their worth in one quarter before obama even got into office. so you know, we've had our property taxes increased our state fees increased and that's mostly to make up for the lost revenue of those mortgages that crashed. >> stephanie: yep. >> caller: when we tak

that was passed as a result of the debt crisis a couple of years ago. >> stephanie: that's right. >> caller: this is where obama snookered the republican party. >> stephanie: yeah. >> they agreed to this. >> stephanie: we said that at the time and we still got downgraded because of the republicans, but you are absolutely right. >> caller: yes and grover norquist on sunday on david marshmallow's show, said that obama was going to take us over the fiscal cliff. >> stephanie: yes, and it is because of republicans. you know what the funny names for republicans, just leave that to us. [ bell chimes ] [ applause ] >> stephanie: david marshmallow. yeah. hi, bob. >> caller: good morning. i just wanted to call about the bob costas thing and just say i started shooting when i was ten year's old, and i still believe there is a place for regulation in gun control. >> stephanie: uh-huh. >> caller: and i think the people that shout the loudest don't speak for even the majority of gun owners and i think there is this trained pavlovian dog whistle, and there's no room for discussion. >> stephani

, economy, and the debt ceiling, and the debt. it's not personal with what obama is saying. even in that game he wins. >> i'm not sure the republicans have done a great job in terms of how they communicate and we saw that in the last election. but this president is not leading. we saw this in new jersey, where governor christie, and an $11 billion deficit. he had a fiscal cliff. he brought everybody in. he knew where the middle road was and -- >> he didn't fall off it. >> exactly. >> i'm joe smith. and i think that the dems want to raise taxes and the republicans want spending cuts, and as far as i'm concerned, i'd rather have the rich people pay taxes than me lose my entitlements. pat goodell can that work? >> people want at the rich to pay more because, okay, they should pay more. at the same time they don't want the economy to go in the hole. the other thing is they don't want the country to go broke, and what the republicans fail to do they fail to community indicate. they couldn't communicate themselves out of 0 wet babier bag. they don't hold barack obama accountable. you're the pr

the president today offered this warning to republicans. amid reports they may accept mr. obama's plan to extend tax cuts for most americans while allowing them to go up for the richest, and start the fight all over again during debt limit talks early next year. >> that is a bad strategy for america. it is a bad strategy for your businesses. and it is not a game that i will play. >> reporter: and brian, tonight, the white house is preparing in case the country does go over that fiscal cliff, budget officials have asked all federal agencies for information that they need in case of possible plans in case of those automatic spending cuts that could go in place in just 27 days. >> peter alexander at the white house for us tonight. thank you. >>> and up next, the loss today of a legend in american music. i put away money. i was 21, so i said, "hmm, i want to retire at 55." and before you know it, i'm 58 years old. time went by very fast. it goes by too, too fast. ♪ but i would do it again in a heartbeat. [ laughs ] ♪ ♪ i took my son fishing every year. we had a great spot, not e

watch writes of all of the falsehoods told about president obama, the biggest whopper is the one about his reckless spending spree. as would be president mitt romney tells it, i will lead us out of this debt and spending inferno. >> oh, come on. really? >> stephanie: how did that go for you, mittens? government -- so here's the graph. government spend -- would you like the fun facts? >> government spending under obama including his stimulus bill is rising at 1.4% annualized pace slower than at any time in four years. >> how outrageous. >> stephanie: look. >> that's very visual. >> stephanie: everybody look. >> see the chart? >> those poor radio people. >> stephanie: as compared to reagan 8.7%. reagan '86-'89. bush two the second term i'm talking about 8.1%. 1.4% is where obama is. >> spending, spend spend! >> outrageous! >> i won't spend that. boehner is flabbergasted. i'm really flabbergasted! >> stephanie: did you see mitch mcconnell said he burst out laughing at the president's proposal. somebody sent me a picture of a galapagos turtle. >> i'll have the last laugh. i'll live to be 3

cliff and to tackle our $16 trillion debt that is driven by runaway entitlement programs. we have seen an utter lack of leadership from president obama and his allies on the left have shown very little to no willingness to tackle real structural entitlement reform. there is no manner of tax hike that can save medicare or medicaid. these programs can only be fixed with real reforms. some on the left say tinkering around the edges of medicare and medicaid would be enough, or that the health law is in touch and a perform. they argue we do not need to examine the structural problems. make no mistake about it then been shoring up medicare and medicaid will not be easy. the situation has become so severe, it is the only responsible course to take them back in just over a decade medicare will be bankrupt. medicare beneficiaries receive $3 in benefits for every $1 they pay into the system. that is while 10,000 more americans join this program every day. the number of workers supporting it has declined by over 18% over the last decade. the average family could give up its salary for the en

revenue to pay down the debt. >> rates have to rise on the top 2%. there's no other way to do it. >> reporter: president obama says his plan will raise taxes on the rich bringing in 1.6 trillion. republicans want to close tax loopholes and eliminate deductions to raise $800 billion in new revenue. >> the president has a huge responsibility to work together with congress and find a solution to avert the "fiscal cliff." >> reporter: and they say it's now up to the president to find a plan that can pass both chambers of congress. susan mcginnis, cbs news, washington. >>> time now 4:40. santa comes early for some facing foreclosure. the promise being made to certain people struggling to keep their homes. >> plus the white house's worst fears. what the syrian government may try to do to its people. >> but a beer run gets ugly as fist flies. the suspects and the struggle coming up after the break. clerk got into a fist fightr beer. surveillance video shows a man apparently steag two cases of beer from the s statio >>> a south carolina convenience story lines clerk got into fistfight ov

truth is our national debt began to skyrocket under george bush with medicare part d fiasco. year under year under george w. bush, deficit came in at $500 billion. it is finally year of 2007-2008 president obama inherited the mess of trillion dollar annual deficits but none of this has been caused by medicare or medicaid. >> obviously entitlements. those lazy 47 percenters. >> stephanie: maria and david gregory should know better. >> yeah, they do. they're both major news anchors of major news networks. >> they're paying them lots of money to say lies. >> stephanie: the real culprits are the lack of revenue caused by the tax cuts. oh, he sent a helpful pie chart as well. >> we love pie charts. >> we love pie. >> stephanie: i love pie charts and graphs. the military security -- >> pie charts ala mode. >> stephanie: responsible for more than half the remaining spending or the $1.3 trillion. if david gregory would correct guests american public would know what the main drivers are. >> who would be infected by the top increase? i'm guessing dade gregory and maria bartolome mow. it's not lik

this in work is so they put it out in public. >> but he wants to raise the debt ceiling. >> that is part of the leverage that republicans have -- >> the best leverage if they have. >> obama thinks he has all the cards, he thinks he is napoleon, or perhaps lbj after his landslide. obama won this election by three points. 95% of republicans in the house won by a larger margin. he has a mandate, they have a mandate, and they have offered to raise revenues, which is to raise taxes. what obama is after is one mark indicates -- he wants to make a political point that republicans are the party of the millionaires. if you look at it as it will attempt to fix our issues, if you do it the taxes he wants, racing on the top 2%, it brings in 8 cents on the dollar, and what it means is that the deficit will go from $1.10 trillion to $1.02 trillion. that is his solution to our fiscal problem. . >> i will point out numbers, arithmetic. the republicans lost the house race, lost the majority of americans voting and a house. they lost two seats in the senate. mitt romney got 47% of the popular vote. t

weight of growing debt and lists wars government intrusion and a broken immigration system has become a bipartisan destructive force is beyond reform you can't reform that federal government whether it's the republicans in charge or obama basically of the republicans are just as bad as far as we're concerned they're corrupt and are out of touch in southern former confederate states like north carolina culture and social issues play a big role for those like harold cruz who believes the us is too big and thus destined to fail north carolina and the south in general. were different country already and the united states and we simply need our own government we have different values different belief systems critics have dismissed secessionists as disgruntled voters angry over president obama's second term however in this your thousand a presidential election obama became the first democrat in more than thirty years to win north carolina a red state turned blue with the promise of change four years later tens of thousands of voters in the very same state believe they'd be better off on their

debt. so strong structural arguments why you should buy gold in any currency. >> president obama will continue to press republicans to let tax cuts expire for people make more than $250,000 a year. reports say the president's opening wid in budget talks calls for $1.6 trillion tax increase. that plan whether he had to sharp comments from both sides of the political aisle. >> now is the time for republicans to you've past this happy talk about revenues ill defined of course and put specifics on the table. the president has made his proposal. >> what we don't know is what the white house is willing to do it get serious about solving our debt crisis. >> if more, we're joined by mark zandi, chief economist at moody's analytics who is here in london. welcome. >> thank you. >> so the fiscal cliff issue, end of the year is looming. we saw the response to this opening gambit by president obama. how likely is it that this is the final plan put forward, what elements do you expect to be most critical here as talks continue? >> i think there will be a lot of brinkmanship. this is just the beginn

. when barack obama went out, he went out and overreached. this idea that he should set the debt limit. if i were the republicans, i would say stop everything. we're going to fight you. >> youg. know what i think? i think the republicans have a communication problem, and i'll tell you why. i was listening to some of the stuff, and when the president gets up, he talks about middle class families and the holidays. then the republicans stand up and say economy and the debt ceiling and the debt. you know, it's more personal with what obama is saying. even if that game he wins. >> i'm not sure the republicans have done a great job in terms of how they communicate. we saw t that in the last election. this president is not leading. we saw this in new jersey where governor christie had 11 billion dollar deficit. he had a fiscal cliff. he knew where the middle road was, and he didn't it. >> he didn't fall off. >> exactly. that's what this president has to do. >> i'm joe smith and i think that the dems want to raise taxes and the republicans want spending cuts, and as far as i'm concerned, i'd r

the interesting point was made by president obama at the business roundtable. working towards john engler his possession to extend debt ceiling providers. that is what we are talking about. >> what is broken is taxes and the dead and spending cuts. if the president were honest and in good faith, he wouldn't be needing with a roundtable. he would be up to capitol hill. as president is not serious. >> the other thing about the debt limit is not an authorization to go into as much does he want for five years or whatever. it is a set dollar amount. how much? lou: based on past five years of the bush administration, i can assure you that it will be a staggering figure. especially since we have a president who is inclined to spend like hell. i don't think there's any doubt about that. the president today is absolutely indulging in class warfare. >> i cannot ask folks who are middle-class seniors on medicare and young people who are trying to get student loans for college -- i can't ask them to sacrifice. and not ask anything of higher income folks. lou: what are your thoughts? >> i love

screams obama's fiscal cliff offer spurned by republicans. obama takes hard line on debt. which might be news to some people in the parenthetical. tony is a political correspondent and mark hannah is a former aide to the john kerry and barack obama presidential campaigns. some of the media tries to short form the story and comes up with a headline that can be barbed easily. this is suggested by a cable anchor who suggested the media has been arrogant since barack obama won in covering him and in covering in particular this fiscal cliff. tony, your thoughts. >> it could only be an msnbc anchor to take this long to figure out. there have been some media, the financial times which endorsed the president has called the president's bluff on this plan. they say this is the same proposal he put in front of congress that received zero votes a year ago, not even one democratic vote. but what the media has been doing is buying into this story line that president obama has some sort of mandate to do whatever he wants and that is truly false. obviously he has been given more time, but not to ram

republicans had harsh words for president obama after he released a budget proposal suggesting more taxes, more spending. >> he wants the power to raise the debt ceiling without congressional approval and they cannot issue an edict like a monarchy, congress, congress, congress is in charge of the purse. the government has gone wild. >> dave: in that congressman's words has they become a monarchy, explaining from texas, congressman poe. >> good morning, dave. >> dave: how has this administration become like a monarchy? >> well, the president in his proposal basically said, turn everything over to me, give me the power or let me take the power to raise the debt ceiling, that seems to be quite arrogant on his part and if he's serious about it, they be what he's really saying is, i want to spend more money. that's how i want to solve the fiscal cliff problem, is spending more taxpayer money. so, the president doesn't have the authority to raise the debt ceiling, he shouldn't have the authority. congress, as you all mentioned earlier is in charge of the money, the purse in the united states. >

support the expiration of the tax cuts for evil making over $250,000. >> do you support obama having the power to increase the debt limit? >> can you clarify something? when he talk about trillions of dollars in cuts , does that factor cuts in cluded in the sequester? >> in the budget control act, it calls for over $1 trillion in cuts. >> the president opposed to propose of wedlock in a certain amount for entitlement programs. do democrats support that? >> first of all, we do democrats, saw savings in medicare of over $700 billion and affordable care act. we use that money to strengthen medicare and extend its life for almost a decade and to increase benefits for seniors now. is there more opportunity for that? yes. but not at the expense of an official years. there have been all kinds of -- but not at the expense of beneficiaries. >> st. mary's hospital is a catholic institution in san francisco. should they be required to adjust to this new health plan? >> the compromise is a reasonable one. >> madame leader? >> yes. >> would you support that if it is part of the package? >> i want

against with roosevelt. obama is looking -- is taking a page out of their book. the two things he wants to do is number one, you mentioned before. no congressional approval of a debt ceiling, and second, and they're going to do this one, it looks like, unless some rational democratic senators come to their aid which is change the rules of the senate to make 51 votes all that is necessary to pass a bill in the united states senate. it will eliminate by and large the filibuster. >> every majority wants to do that. >> they're the only ones that will do it. they're threatening to do that. in fact, they're scheduled to vote to do that, to change the rules in a way that's never been done before. it's been threatened before, but nobody's ever pulled the trigger on it. it looks like they're willing to pull the trigger to get what they want which is a majority rule to be able to force things down the throats of the american people that they don't want. >> if he gets his revenue but makes no structural change in the way we do business, i mean, if there's no effort to do that but he just get

. president's very focused on that. jay? >> just a second ago, you referred to how the debt ceiling, taking it off the table, needs to be part of the deal. you referred to the economy, you called held hostage by the ideological team. you were aware of this, senator obama was against -- >> we addressed that. there was no threat of default at the time. what happened in 2011, as we know, what happened, we lived it, most of us in this room, was the threat of default, a willingness expressed on the record and publicly by numerous members of congress to see the american's economy, and under defort, and with all of the consequent impacts on the global economy and the american middle class in order to achieve some sort of political victory that was driven by ideology and partisanship, enormously damaging to the economy, to consumer confidence. we were downgrades famously, and it is a testament to the american people and the american economy, the american business, and some of the success we have had working with congress that we have been able to rebound and the economy continues to grow an

dollar deficit every year under this administration. president obama has nearly doubled the debt. the spending is out of control. and it's -- we have this economy that continues to struggle -- >> the debt ceiling -- >> the debt ceiling is our opportunity to really look at these questions, but the republicans want to negotiate -- speaker boehner the day after the election, went to the podium and put tax revenue on the table. this is our moment, this is our -- tip o'neill and president reagan back in the early '80s, they came together. they negotiated to save social security as well as address the spending. and it was a $3 in spending cuts to every dollar in new revenue. and that's the type of approach we need today. >> they never used the issue of debt ceiling in those negotiations. that's relatively new. the president says, i will not play that game. he may have no choice, because the republicans have a decisive majority in the house of representatives. if they want to play that game, he's going to have to do it. >> whey believe the president is saying is, we could get to a big deal,

president obama and his fellow democrats need to strike a deal before the end of the year on reducing the national debt to avoid that fiscal cliff. republican aid describe the tentative white house proposal this way. $1.6 trillion in revenue presented by secretary treasury secretary timothy geithner and stimulus and $400 billion in medicare and other entitlement savings. a permanent increase in the debt limit. >> so, let's get more on the standoff right now. joining us senator bernie sanders of vermont. he caucuses with the democrats. senator, first of all, congratulations on your re-election. thanks for coming in. republicans say, you know what, they'll be flexible, but the democrats have to be flexible, too, especially when it comes to entitlement spending. medicare, medicaid and even reform. are you open to any of that? >> when republicans talk about being flexible, we have not heard one definitive word to what they mean. second of all, our republican friends look up and understand that this issue of the fiscal cliff was debated during the election and, you know what, mitt romney lost.

. president obama giving his pitch for the fiscal cliff. when will the rhetoric give way to a real action on our debt crisis. juan williams on when a deal can happen. melissa: how would you like to pay more at the pump? we have the new talk about raising the gas tax. what a great idea. lori: i love paying over four dollars a gallon. washington not the only one that cannot get a deal done. entering day 76. its small business that is really on then ice. melissa: time now for stocks as we do every 15 minutes. lauren simonetti. washington is playing politics over the fiscal cliff. we are near session lows right now. >> 11 points away from session lows. the dow is clinging onto that level right now. consumer discretionary is your best performing sector this month. it is lower today, as is technology. the s&p 500 trying to hang onto a monthly gain. not sure if we can do it. certainly higher for the week and nasdaq higher for the both of them. a two-day chart of yelled is really interesting. they expect fourth-quarter sales in china to decline. lots of analysts cutting this stuff today. melissa: la

congressional republicans said to be deadlocked. president obama released his plan. it includes 1.6 trillion dollars in new tax increases. 50 billion in new stimulus spending. and stimulus, and new power to raise the debt ceiling without congressional approval. tim geithner, john boehner appearing with chris wallace on fox news sunday. >> we're nowhere, period. we're nowhere. we put a serious offer on the table by putting revenues up there to get this question resolved but the white house has responded with virtually nothing. they have actually asked for more revenue than they have been asking the whole entire time. >> in kind of a tough position now. it is going to be, obviously a little hard for them now. they're trying to figure out where they go next. we might need to give them a little more time to let them go next. we did what you expect from us. we laid out a very detailed, carefully designed set of spending savings and tax changes that help put us back on a path to fiscal responsibility. bill: where are we now? senior white house foreign affairs correspondent wendell goler on the nor

need to address the debt, the debt, almost doubled under this administration, under president obama. and that has to be a part of this. that is where the republicans are insisting that we have a spending cuts and entitlement reforms that will got america on the right track moving forward. jenna: congresswoman, such a big topic. we only brushed the surface of it. we look forward to having you back to talk more about it. thank you so much. >> thank you. jon: right now a potentially explosive new development in the trayvon martin shooting case. lawyers for george zimmerman, releasing this photo. it shows the accused shooter with a bloody nose taken on the night of the deadly shooting. zimmerman as you might recall faces second-degree murder charges in the death of this man, 17-year-old trayvon martin. zimmerman claims he shot the teen in self-defense during a violent struggle and martin inflicted the bloody nose. does this change the arc of this case? let's talk about it with lose we will, fox news analyst and crystal panich a criminal defense attorney. the shooting happened and that p

meeting with leadership staff said we are not moving on the debt seal, not moving on tax rates and entitlement savings. you have to do something. the "new york times" reported this morning that boehner and obama -- boehner has requested private negotiations with obama. i don't know what -- i am not sure why that's important at the that you can on the phone privately. they are looking for a way out they have signaled some private openness if they could kick it up to 37% instead of 39% if they get some entitlement savings they could sell. >> the president would get 39-6 for the upper income folks with doing nothing and no entitlement cuts by doing nothing? >> right. >> it would be a deal. you would guess the president would want some sort of package and wouldn't want to go over the cliff. it would be politically and substantively. this is what republican aids say. he has the chance to do something big. if he come our way i am not negotiating this. >> you need to get something in order to do something. we are getting ahead of ourselves. this is the conversation that we have to have. t

rich at the expense of domestic programs. >> the biggest problem with president obama is he is a small-pinded president in big times . he talk about 35-39 that doesn't get us out of debt. >> that is tough rhetoric for senator lindd say graham. the president will meet with governors and representatives of big business to discuss the plan and house speaker jone boehner will meet with the governors and plans to conduct rallies with small business owners and not sure when they will sit down and talk again. >> steve: thank you very much, kelley. we heard there are a number of democrats willing to jump off of the cliff schumer to name one. the white house is telling democrat reporters that the president is not eager to but he is willing to go off of the cliff if the republicans don't agree to raising income tax rates. >> gretchen: that is not surprising. on the show, basically all of the cuts that are coming january 1st are part of the dnc platform except for raising taxes on the middle class which would be $2000 per family under $250,000 income. why would this be a smart thing to do. becaus